How to Cage the Monkey Mind

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Hello, boys and girls is Tim Ferriss and welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss show.

Where does typically my job to interview and deconstruct a world-class performer where they are from the worlds of say Athletics business politics military, they could be from anywhere because there are patterns in the greatness and there are recipes tactix tools that you can use this episode is a little different.

I've visited the Googleplex that is the mountain view-based headquarters of Google and how to chat at a public chat and I was interviewed myself and I made sure by selection of the questions.

I knew at least the first 5 to 6 or so that we would cover some ground that has not been covered before so there were questions such as what is the most important still teaching that I've come across.

How can we stay humble? How do I manage the many many requests that I receive in the Found that I received what are the say success factors are elements that have led to the success of the Tim Ferriss show this podcast and the patterns that I've spotted.

Where do I see myself in 5 years if I could pick anyone alive or dead be my personal board of directors? Who would they be three people? Let's just say how do I experiment with my dog training these things that many of you did ask me about and I haven't had a chance to cover before we get into you and Longevity.

Insomnia Etc.

So I hope you enjoy this.

It is a change-of-pace.

It is shorter than the usual and as always thank you so much for listening.

Welcome everyone like to introduce you to Tim Ferriss author of The 4-Hour Work Week body and Chef hosts the Tim Ferriss show.

The number one rated business podcast in iTunes in a Serial investor.

I'm your host Jourdan Thibodeaux.

So without further Ado, let's give him a nice so welcome.

So tell me what has been the most important steel teachings.

Since stoic philosophy is in essence the operating system that I use for making better decisions or try to use very old 2000 plus years old various iterations and I would say that you can start many places whether it's Marcus Aurelius meditations or the more letters.

Can you kill these letters of Seneca keto is particularly interesting to me in one of the lessons that I train from in my life comes from Cato Cato was considered by many of the perfect stoic.

I'm sure he was not perfect has none of us are but she would regularly Princeton to wear mismatched clothing in high-profile Arenas where that was frowned upon so that he could train himself to be ashamed only of the things worth being ashamed of So you can practice doing things that would earn him the scorn superficial scorn of others and the form that can take is can be very very simple and you can do in very small ways.

But I have what I would call for instance is ridiculous example, but that's the whole point.

I have my party pants which of these ridiculous pants that look straight out of Austin Powers and I will catch like where those not to offend some guests who would like to dinner host in some but I'll wear it in a place where I know that I'm going to be sideways glances for a run to try to inoculate myself against that type of superficial attachment to what others think for a while recently.

I was wearing what I could best describe is like a creepy pornstash is a very Ill-advised half-grown mustache that look terrible.

It really did look like Chester the Molester list terrible and I were that sounds like a good week and a half and every time I would put up a photograph on on Instagram or wherever it was.

He like please for God's sake take that thing off your face and it was just another exercise and there many different ways to do this, but I think that would be one that comes to mind is regularly practicing things that you feel embarrassed by but shouldn't that have no grander importance whatsoever so that When you train yourself to not be embarrassed by the small things then when it comes time to make big decisions stand up for something larger, you will have the training that you need and this is not initially stoic but I think it's Ark in Locust not brushed up on my angel pronunciation, but the this is military is a military contacts, but it was we do not rise to the level of our hopes.

We fall to the level of our training.

What I like about stoicism is that offers practical ways of practicing as the second would be practicing your worst case scenario is very similar to a larger meta example.

I think it's on fasting and festivals around festivals and fasting think it's letter 13 actually in the more letters to look at Leah's which I reread it all the time clearly can tell and I had to set aside a certain number of days each month, which I do during which you will be satisfied with the cheapest and scatters the fair where the roughest of clothing Etc asking yourself all the while is this the condition that I so feared so practicing poverty, which would then Empower you to make decisions because you know the worst case scenario isn't that bad? And for that reason among other reasons we can get into and I do one 3-day fast every month 91:7 a 10-day fast every one to two quarters and there are other things that I do on top of that but those are a few that come to mind.

Excellent in the podcast you talk about the monkey brain.

Can you explain what that is? The monkey brain or monkey mind is so I think inside all of us in some capacity.

It's this incessant internal dialogue on or maybe not even a dialogue.

Maybe it's just some stirring or irritating roommate that you have in your head and a tweaked back to say Elementary School on our lives this kid in my class.

So always misbehaving and Dumber at one point.

He got up and took their grade and the teacher suddenly froze and we turned around and he had a fork over his head and he said I am the master of the University stabbing electrical outlets and I would walk over and he would always you like build a building out of five construction blocks and then fall over when I got to be just like a lay down and cry and I think that as we get older we learn to not do those things cuz you'd be Put in a straight jacket as a result there internalized all they were walking around with some version or combination balm the same and the context in which I probably brought it up.

The monkey mind was as it relates to my morning journaling side.

I do regularly journal sometimes I do what would be considered morning Pages other times? I use something called the five minute journal entry to talk about the the goal is not to write per say I'm not doing it for someone else.

I'm simply capturing my monkey mind.

It's Litany of complaints or insecurities on paper so that it's not caught on repeat for the rest of the day.

I'm simply giving it a a two dimensional prison playpen so that I can then move on with my day and Newt at least for a brief.

Of time on those things, but it's fine if you want to be less reactive.

the author of your own life or business career, whatever might be you have to be able to do deep work and think long-term and rationally.

And for all the things you need to get very good at identifying where you're being overly reactive two thoughts to external factors outside of your control of every month to the five minute.

Journal is control is created by a reader of the 4-Hour workweek actually for those who have read the book.

It was their Muse.

So they're one of their cash flow businesses in the context of Life stop sign, but you take two and a half minutes or so in the morning and then again at night and so what is effectively a focusing planning exercise is also gratitude.

I think is very critical for those of us who are driven Taipei Achievers, very easy to constantly be focused on the future is the pit pause for a second.

I heard someone say that depression is an obsession with the past and anxieties and obsession with the future well, If you look at the cheevers, they tend to be very future-focused.

And as soon as they hit a goal that I don't have time to celebrate the small win.

This isn't good enough bigger bigger better Etc.

And that is a powder that can be very self-destructive.

Even if you rack up a lot of winds at the same time.

So we grabbed two component is Extreme people that takes about 2 and 1/2 minutes each day, and it also helps to identify your focal points where your priorities so that when inevitably that 10% that's left of the monkey mind pops up like dance in front of you and distract you from your objected to set up for the day.

You can return to that and then at the end of the day, it's it's biscuit performance review and a lot of our life for the time festival.

Honda 250 world-class performers across every possible to man imaginable Sports entertainment politics art chess just goes on and on that the difference between somebody who's good at like the was just called the top quartile of the population in their chosen field in the top 1% It's the degree to which they can they can focus to determine their goals and maintain that Focus.

It's one of the largest distinguishing factors.

now with people who achieve success in their careers or in athletics or whatever what people do to maintain their Humility, I think is not too tough to maintain if you create the proper environment and I'm I'm not a huge fan of self-control or willpower.

I think it's really overrated.

That's a stupid lazy answer or just a shite observation.

Like if you look at behavioral modifications, like they sell black women send if they blocked lack of social accountability.

Maybe they don't have the information that they need and you can create environments in which you can train and I come back to this over and over and over again, but they're few things.

I think they're very helpful.

One is Memento Mori remembering that you're going to die and putting putting that it's also very stoic for someone obsessed on about A thieving to Hickory Dickory that I find weird, but then That's Amore so constantly revisiting death and realizing it be for you to put your life in a broader context of civilization in the world.

And I think that in and of itself is is there a corrective and that how do you practice or develop its Memento Mori I have court of my refrigerator.

That's from Marcus Aurelius and meditations by the Journal while Marcus Aurelius.

Who's the most powerful man on the planet that the time was on military campaign and he would write these entry is to do exactly this to remind himself that he was just a man.

He was going to die would all be dust and sounds depressing until you realized the clarity and lack of waste.

The comes from constantly getting those types of things.

I've been you have Memento homo translation off with that is remembering that you are just a man or a person since we don't have those in this room probably are not going to condition like Julius Caesar someone hold a laurel wreath over your head while you're doing a procession like the Roman Triumph to say you were just a man.

You're just a man the way that you can very easily humble yourself is to always try to be the weakest person in the room in something like everyday you should be the weakest person in the room at some point whether that is in a meeting weather that is in a sport with Jim weather that is in a chess match.

It doesn't matter but I always try to be the weakest person.

Remember when I was 15 At my first time over overseas for an extended pretty time is in Japan for a year and I ended up being a judo player.

I was competing in Judo and high school that I went to was not particularly strong, you know, but I was the big fish in a little Pond and I was very high and mighty as I thought I was just the cat's meow and that wasn't too overt about it.

But I was very satisfied with how well I was doing what do I purchase tournament? I got demolished in 7 Seconds by this guy who weighed 40 pounds less that I didn't like it either.

I know you're you are.

I was so demoralized and the only white guy they are a lot of people just hoping that they would be able to get my finger and laugh and Japan, but so I ended up going after that to a cram school for I can Juku and they have it for all sorts of things at night.

And I went to Tokai University is on Judah Christian School Spokane University produces gold medalist in the Olympics.

So I went in and I was 15 at the time and I got I got just an Island by 12 year olds.

I mean talking about embarrassing and you're getting your ass like a sophomore in high school getting killed by 6th graders to 7th graders.

So embarrassing.

I don't feel like I'm making a lot of progress.

My during is getting a little bit better and went to tournament that have the same competitors is priebus, and just walked through everybody just steamrolled because I had a better color group has the weakest in the world as long as it doesn't matter if you're losing so that would be everyone approach just like every day schedule at Planet be the weakest person in the room and some capacity nice.

So bring it to communication.

You have multiple people trying to reach out to contact you.

How do you manage all those requests? I suppose the short answer is I don't manage all those requests the irony of the 4-Hour workweek among many others.

Is that my sister better now than they were when they booked him up because if you look at my assistant send the very same about channels that we have or try to avoid but none the less have its 1500 to 2000 direct messages of some type every day.

They hit me and my team excluding all the tweets Facebook mentions Google Plus etcetera ignoring all of that should be the way that I try to think about handling that is having rules set in advance.

So for instance if we were to take AAA corporate or startup analogy, you don't want to decide how to respond to a crisis when a crisis hits.

Did you think you're going to have a disaster you want to role? Play it out and see if a then B C or D if x then Y and Z and do have a plan in place so that the salt eyes back together if disaster strikes you're not react.

If you don't make a compulsive or not compulsive impulsive decision that could destroy a lot of what you were at work to achieve including your reputation soup with email.

I have very particular rules and I will block out periods of time for instance.

I'm going to take July and I did this but two years ago Bali there's actually a good piece and Inked magazine called for our reality check.

That's that's not a bad read about this, but I'm blocking out July to focus on writing and deep work in that capacity.

So I have to set up systems in rules in advance so that I don't have to be on email or calendar or on which is what I did for a month in Indonesia me to do this time overseas and The same thing is deciding on your policies and I realize for myself that I due moderation very poorly whether it's caffeine booze on if I'm off I am off.

So that is why I decided to take a vacation effectively retirement at as of about nine months ago.

I realized print this is just one example, I was drowning an email intros to Founders and cold emails and pictures in the sun everything whether I do a hundred deals a year 10 deals a year $1 a year if I have to stop and look at all of the inbound to make decisions.

It's almost the exact same amount of work.

So trying to pair back in moderation is it's a it's a it's a Fool's errand.

You just end up doing the same at work.

So I will decide like am I doing speaking engagements or not.

Am I doing say interviews or not.

Am I writing for any other sites whatsoever to get hit by people who want me to write for this in this new start-up to write 4 as such and such establish media is trying to Branch into whatever know I like the answer to that is absolutely not because I'm focusing on my own writing and the five minute journal app to allow you to practice that focus and then there are there's a very small subset.

Let's just call it one to 2% that get me closer to that of the mountain that I seen the distance which which represents the goals.

I've already set for myself and I'll have a great commencement speech by Neil Gaiman everyone.

Check out I'll make good art.

It's fantastic.

But he talks a lot about this and then the question is what are the tools or policies tactics that help with managing that's upset that I am going to attack by used tools like schedule once for scheduling allows other people to find X and to avoid the the back and forth because when I want to see something that'll be painfully cameras.

You can check out I think it's let's get drinks and believe the New Yorker so they can look that up.

It's my life.

Which one is adulthood something about paraphrasing adulthood is saying sorry for the late reply until one of you dies tell you schedule once I use to Boomerang which allows me to not just automate if I don't hear back from someone go to set parameters and 2nd.

Very under used as a feature to send in the future.

So the way you train someone just like, you know training a dog or a manatee or anything else the same stuff is a great book called Don't Shoot the dog that you should already know about for training humans.

Also is you can extend the time between when she respond to certain types of people and it just teaches them that you are not on I am Email is not messenger for you in the future very helpful processing email.

I use Gmail offline a lot.

So I'll process email back process email off lines that I don't have the psychological trauma of feeling like I'm doing whack-a-mole.

I send emails I can fight back on the song.

I'm drowning.

I can't do this batch processing offline hugely valuable and there are other things that I do.

I'll give it one more which is if you send an email try to think of if-then scenarios rights of the engineer will probably do this.

Naturally.

I was thinking in terms of scripture algorithms, but if you send an email to hey, can you meet up next week? And that's the end of the email that's a bad email.

So can you meet up next week? I suggest this time or this time.

This is my fault that like my first choice.

If you can't do those times, please suggest two or three times like in this Membrane that work for you, let sit for 30 minutes and 3 seconds on the front end and it will save you 20 x changes on the back end.

So just always thinking like is there an if line that I should put in this email before you head send saves a lot of time but I try to move as much as possible off of email to things like slack Dropbox Etc.

Whenever possible stemi has design for emergency military communication.

We use it for listen to your podcast and it has been wildly successful.

What do you think Drive the success of the podcast? I think the podcast is successful because I I knew I had a guaranteed audience of one and that me and I was scratching An Itch in case of whenever I try to design something for a market it fails whenever I just do something that I couldn't find for myself and it does fun seems to be the trend so I'm scratching my own and what I was missing was the long-form fly-on-the-wall conversation.

But also the tactics in the really detailed nitty-gritty how to stuff and all the books can about this way.

I was looking for something looking for something like I'm something I suspect I was writing myself like this is too annoying cuz I would gather all these resources back.

Okay, I will at least compile this and in the case of the podcast I wanted to try to spot the patterns and all these experts are already doing this type of prep work for the books by ferreting is people out and it it happened.

It's just so happens that I don't have these dinners or drinks with folks who are the best at what they do and I would think afterwards usually two or three glasses of wine in this is so good.

Like I wish I could just share this I just record this and then if any of you heard the first episode so sloppy with Kevin Rose, even though he was a close friend still is a close friend and he was just like busting my balls the whole time.

So that's what it close guy friends do to each other and decided just drinking way too much like a Metro why but I was skipping through the audio.

Just checking on the quality 2 hours long to navarre's on in about an hour and I was anxious for whatever reason I want to be respectful of your time.

And oh my God, this is terrible and I had this like a lip-smacking tick him like all this it was like I am ashamed and I committed to 6 because the only do one you're going to quit or most people will see you commit to 6 and the question I ask myself what makes you successful there actually a bunch of questions baked into that makes it something that spreads but there's also why it's just maybe the better question if I had tried to do something fancier like fill in the blank something that is produced really well like a freaking out at Radio.

I don't have the experience of the resources.

I would have become overwhelmed that I would have quit the ruler one is you want something to be successful? You can't quit you actually have to get to a point where your learning curve hockey sticks and I believe it from my format for podcast in general.

That's at least six episodes.

So the the question that I think it allowed it to succeed for me and Me to feel successful doing it because I enjoy it is number 1.

How do I keep this phone number to what would it look like if it were simple like I asked myself that question more and more all the time.

Now, what would this look? Like if it were dead simple stupid simple? Okay Ferris and I like feature creep.

I know you love Writing Center Page books, but like let's hold back on that per second.

What would this look like a try that breakfast? I think those are very very very very tactic Rich routines habits.

What was what is the book that you give to the most other people? What is the first 60 Minutes of your day look like specifically exact time.

How do you make your how do you make your coffee Brandy? Like why and just I trying to harness that OCD in a way.

It is helpful instead of making my relationships in flood something like that.

99% on Pandora plus podcast to say Cassie.

I'll be successful people.

Are you seeing commonalities as that is leading to their succession of careers? I think there are a few things in the first is now this could be a selection bias.

Maybe I'm choosing people were.

More prone to have certain things in common than others or I'm attracted to people in a way that the biases but at least 80% of the people I've interviewed across all demands have a daily meditation practice sometime certainly if you want to cut down on monkey mind the first step is just to become aware of it kind of observe it like a really shity Comedy Bang Your Head.

What is my prank doing? This is make any sense and 20 minutes in the morning is a great way to do that and I am not particularly particularly in favor one versus another.

I found TM trazodone medication be very helpful because it's presented in very secular way and I find the white noise of a mantra the word about to bug me so much but a word that you repeat over and over again to be very helpful.

How about the pasta there is a biscuit book called waking up by Sam Harris Sam Harris's PhD in Neuroscience been on podcast pod about this hard rock also fantastic 80% have some type of meditation practice, even if they don't call it meditation.

So I V for instance interviewed Amelia Boone incredible endurance athletes the most successful female endurance athlete Knoxville course racing in the world, but also in like 2012 at the world's toughest Mudder things about 1,200 competitors night.

Probably 90% male she came in second place out of everybody has a 24 hour race and she is super tough.

And you know, she said well, I don't really have a meditation practice and I was like what you do when your running shoes I can either listen to like one track over and over again or I sing with myself over and over again on the whole hell of a lot like meditation to me example, he did he Is everything a hundred percent Arnold like when he goes he really goes and he did for a year and then he felt like he hit a certain Plateau stopped but he said that the benefits persisted for decades very very cool idea station will be 1/2 of the males and we could we can theorize as to why this is the case, but of the males a high percentage of the interviewees over the age of 50.

Skip breakfast very high percentage General Stanley McChrystal.

Tick tick tick tick tick there's a long list Pavel tsatsouline for breakfast is like breakfast coffee favorite episodes.

Let's see the differences reassure and because of course, I think we're at War pattern recognition machine.

So I'm looking for like the secrets like that's my recipe and then I like everything I want to do everything that I want be happy.

I love you.

But what I've realized over time, is that what appears to be the case because you have at first I was in Polish people like I wake up at 4:30 in the morning like Jocko willink the most decorated Special Operations Commander from the Iraq War.

He was like wake up at 4:30 and I had a string and I can certainly done all my best writing between like 11 p.

m.

And I-45 and then I had a few folks were very late night.

And what I realized is and there's a quote I'm going to ask her but I thought I'm going to hire freeze here that I think is w h Auden AUD and I'm a beginning last name wrong, but And I think that what is important is not having a specific routine.

It's having a routine.

That's like you have a routine that allows you to preserve your decision-making and in your creativity.

Sorry dungeon dragons for the things that actually matter so you're not waking up and every morning deciding what time for breakfast you not waking up every morning and maybe deciding what to wear right Steve Jobs Etc there quite a few friends who were the same thing everyday to in what ways can you preserve your decision-making budget your creativity budget for the things that you are uniquely good at and that really matter in the answer seems to be you have a lot of retain its and you can have your owner chance, but what's important that you have a routine or routines that you stick to four.

Of time.

That seems to be there many many many many many different pretends to be a few a lot of them the majority of them are insomniacs.

South take heart just because you're Insomniac doesn't make you successful but seems to be a symptom or a common side effect of a lot of their behavior and then scratching their almost all of them scratching an itch and this is actually super important I think is a lot of rah, rah, like motivational speaker business of ice out there that is utter horseshit.

And I think one of the biggest delusions Illusions or just hoaxes is like people are really successful or unsuccessful that might be the story you read about in the magazines and makes for a fun hero's journey type of story, but the people that that I've been most impressed by ask themselves all the time.

What is the worst case scenario their budgeting for the downside to another in other words, they're not using optimism to allow them to take action.

They're not just like, you know what I'm going to do.

Call the Clifton grow wings on the radio or whatever.

The cliche is that you might find on like the calendar in office space know they're saying the way that I do things other people think are high risk or other people think are risky dangerous.

Whatever it might be is because I I write down the worst-case scenarios ask myself.

What can I do to mitigate distance from happening and then I asked myself if they happened.

What can I do to get back to where I am now and I realized these like risky things are not risk it all right there totally reversible.

They're just speed bumps.

Anything goes wrong really in the grand scheme of things.

And so they did get a lot of at-bats doing really good accounting the downside Branson to set this as much as he has a lot of rah-rah stuff like a drill that into it's like he's really good at deciding like what is the most I can lose if I do x what is the most time that I can lose if we do why and then making decisions based on? That loss limit that makes sense because I've never been I mean I was like the sample follow my passion kind of guy I get excited about things.

I want to scratch an itch.

But I think that the real tool kit is getting really good at asking you is this the condition that I so feared what if and once he was from neuter the worst-case scenarios and dbpower them like three hours of this crap.

It's not the end of the world right at the end.

billions also good But I digress it actually happened with this really happened.

That was called the road of death because of Pablo Escobar's henchmen used to drop dead bodies down Ravines on either side and they're just be piled with body soap.

It's really hard to trailer.

Could be a lot worse could be a lot worse.

So.

Break.

All right.

Semicolon for em dashes.

I love him.

He's so lazy some feelers out on on social media to see if you'll be asleep because usually when I end up doing something it's when it's less painful to do it than to not do it.

So the insomnia for me I've actually become a much better getting sleep much better falling asleep.

But usually when I end up on the trigger on something it's when it keeps me up for like four or five nights straight and just like the ideas are coming in like God.

Stop make it stop.

I want to go to sleep.

But it's that excitement good stuff and stuff.

And I took the last you a week or two the idea of distilling patterns and learnings and the stuff that was not in the podcast also experiments that I've done afterwards or in between or other interactions of had with his guests there a lot of just so awesome.

Habits and tools that I've actually tested so many people here have listen to the podcast of those people how many would be interested in distilled synopsis of the best Lessons Learned in the podcast? All right.

Sounds like a 67% chance.

I just think it would be and I'll tell you why also it's not the reason you might expect.

What would I suffer from most what pains me the most about the podcast is be like embarrassment of riches that comes out of a 2 and 1/2 hour conversation because I do have one of these coming out week.

I don't have time to actually digest and reflect on all the stuff and putting out I do as much as I can but I just don't have the bandwidth and now I'm a hundred 50 hundred fifty people across like a hundred different view review life is the test.

Where you going to like having panic attacks? This would give if I were to go back and try to distill all the stuff.

I wouldn't give me the incentive an opportunity to do exactly that go back and actually pull out all this is my God.

Oh my God, that's right the most successful people in the business and investing round recommended sapiens Book on an evolutionary biology if I really like that.

That's weird though.

Yeah, I forgot about that.

Maybe I should read sapiens now fill in the blank are so many examples like that.

So it should be done by July, basket many things book writing is not one of them, but I wouldn't be it certainly would not take as long as it's some of the you like soul-crushing projects that I've allowed myself to expand from like fire Shepherds supposed to be turning 50 pages ended up 670 Turns out I'm trying to learn from my mistakes that the audience the first question is so good that I almost forgot it.

The first question is what are your plans where you see Tim going in next 5 years? Tim in 5 years Tim's East Tim's like Hulk speak.

I see in the next 5 years what let me pause before I answer not to say I've never had reliable five-year plans 10-year plans otherwise and I treat my tire life is a series of two-week experiments and six month projects because and then maybe this is just the way I cope with life and decision-making, but I feel like if you make a five or ten year plan that you can reliably hit.

Almost by definition.

You have to set up a plan that is below your current capabilities plus plan for to be a hundred percent of Shiva Bowl.

I think it's just a great way to paint yourself into very unattractive Corner show two-week experiments 6 month project has my whole life.

But if I had to guess I would say 5 years less hair cutter gymnastics does my new thing one of many things larger picture.

I see myself doing the podcast or some iteration of it just deconstructing experts are world-class performers on a much larger scale.

I just I think it'll be ten.

I think I wanted to be 10 times bigger without sacrificing the nitty-gritty the nerdiness are going to the details.

Found out that the party would like Dom D'Agostino talk about Navy Seals and rebreathers and all this and Kiki shit for an hour and a half.

Like that's what I'm going to do.

If I think that will continue to be a component because whether or not I'm polishing at that's what I'm doing anyway, so I'd like to but by doing it publicly I force myself to get better.

It's a strong incentive to refine the the blade I think that relationship that the whole everything requires a lot more tequila.

Somebody was like a relationship.

That's a best-case scenario feel like other people have written that book don't need to do it.

So I hope to be I hope to be better at simplifying.

I think I'm good.

But I know I can be better.

I would like to listen first time in a long time that I've ever said this like I want to still be doing what I'm doing with the podcast.

I'm just really loving it in like with books if anybody tried other people that survived books are not going to have anybody confess their sins now, but it's like you get through a book and I remember 90% done with the 4-Hour Body and I was talking to this other like our God.

I'm so bored of this so.

I can't stand re-reading these chapters.

I'm 90% done.

I'm almost there a God.

This is so painful to give birth to these things like crowning with like it's just like an image of her that we prefer Total Recall with Arnold before Arnold.

Let that haunt your dreams everyone but with the podcast it's like I feel when I finish a good interview.

I did want to BJ Miller special.

Someone is not widely.

Known BJ Miller palliative care and hospice expertise help with thousand people are so transition death and I finish arms.

Like I feel so much smarter after having had this conversation and it just makes me so stoked to do it again a week later.

So I want to be continuing but I fully expect that the doors will close that I think are currently open doors will open that.

I don't even know exist at the moment and that's part of the two-week experiment 6 month project plan.

So exciting quite frankly if I had a predictable plan.

I think I would run out of steam I wouldn't have the gasoline or electricity Tesla to make it work and I hope to be taking I don't think I take myself too seriously, but I hope to even to a greater extent be embracing and creating absurdity in the World's End laughing at myself.

Cuz I think it's very hard to get anything.

Serious is really hard to get anything truly big and serious done.

If you take yourself too.

Seriously another reason why I do drugs Q&A sometimes on the internet.

I'm not drunk right now and you can put three people on their living and dead who those people be Bristol board directors three people I would say first few that come to mind would be Benjamin Franklin.

The Merry Prankster himself just saw such a colorful character and multi-faceted really incredible amateur who is able to best a lot of the professionals because of that beginner mind and lack of fear.

And I think that prankster like nature was very helpful.

The Walter Isaacson biography of Franklin is so good.

So good slows down for me and listen to last third but the beginnings are so incredible.

This is really fantastic highly recommended Richard Fineman, probably the physicist another polymath / prankster who you stood in addition to being in a world that he would.

He became a safe breaker just to like annoy his superiors.

I wouldn't suggest this in today's climate, but I can use to break into the safes at was almost take out like a top secret documents and then put him on his boss's desk and then close the safe and sleep pad some debate with an artist friend and they got really fired up and he's like, well, I'm going to teach you about science and he would go into strip club the paint stripper.

Like I love this guy.

I think I might not be able to get a word in edgewise with him at the same table and then probably need some like serious.

serious person samskaras sauce I think maybe Marcus Aurelius.

Not sure if I can get him laugh much if it was Shashi, although he brought kill all of us Musashi Miyamoto Musashi.

Anyway.

I said thank you so much for coming out of listen to your podcast every week and actually see a face that moves with them as I need experience Prince truly apologize for that.

I look like I look like a bridge draw.

This is good or getting off on a narwhal or something.

I actually have a question I can right now so she's probably in the Marin Headlands with with a walker.

Talk about in your five bullet Friday is about her and that the toy that spits out food and I know that you do a lot of tests experimentation on yourself, and I was just wondering as you're raising a puppy not inhumanely, but do you do any kind of testing experimentation in her training and testing all the time and I'm putting her in a Skinner box or anyting but I think that it is a great as he is with I think many things in life like How We Do Anything Is How We Do Everything sometimes and I found that getting better at training Molly being attuned her needs but also being consistent with my training and sequencing the training and right way.

So just in the 4-Hour chef and I talked about meta-learning and dislike deconstruction selection sequencing.

I approach dog training the same way.

It's really just animal training including humans.

So don't shoot the dog great framework to start with and I think crate training huge.

Even if you have an older dog, I think that sick or training for just Precision super helpful, Karen Pryor's pretty good for that also and training for attention as a prerequisite to all other skill training and you can do that very easily by for instance getting a treat in one hand and a clicker in the other and you hold the treat for a dog's face after they sit and behold tree.

To the side their eyes will travel with it.

Wait until their eyes come back to your eyes when you click the clicker you get in the tree and by doing that in various ways you instill in them the habit of constantly checking in with you using eye contact.

And it makes everything else come sit stay down infinitely easier.

So thinking about how to sequence the skills is very is there a fun training for safety first trick second salsa something.

I look very carefully at so I will do time to stays.

Like down stay and I'll do like she has to do it for 5 minutes and then I'll give her like another Beluga caviar dog treats but to do that.

You also need no reward marker to do the silver war marker be click treat no reward marker verbal cues to say you screwed up in other words and always getting a dog psoriasis something unrelated.

So using sit for please is another thing that I think it's very helpful for safety and is a prerequisite skull.

Anytime she wants anything and that's okay.

Tell me something.

I don't know but I'll give you a variation.

You might not think of any time.

I open a door she sits first I go out next then she looks at me and I go okay and she comes to the door.

This means your dog never jumped out of the car when you open the hatchback and gets hit by another car will never happen if Washington Never Never Say Never but you just decrease the likelihood infinitely.

So those those are few things that I've played around really poorly.

There's one book that I'm hoping to acquire and just give away free quite frankly.

It's really thin.

It's called Command Performance and it's a short compilation of a two pages per Behavior put the other by the whole dog journal.

I'm sure the base of the name like that.

I would start with that.

I think I'll go really long way there.

Also some YouTube channels that I think you're helpful.

Kikopup.

Ki-ko pup is one that I found very helpful, but you run into that you run into any type of Coach, but you Jitsu is very problematic for this.

Everything is where the instructor walks in these kind of decide on the technique dejure and then they teach you that there's no sequences are progression and with dogs or humans.

Do you want the best result in progression doing as they approach their forties and beyond for a minimum effective dose? It's just too late to get your casket at Costco.

And I just was there myself the preface has to be I'm not a doctor don't play one of the internet does not medical advice blah blah blah talk to my precious.

But if I were to or maybe I am already if I were to pursue increasing lifespan, it would not be it would not be at the expense of performance number one.

Tyson drug performs too much so it can't make me like a sexless listless.

depressed person with a lot of things that extend lifespan to really really extended caloric restriction like yeah, so like I do that but I do to purge pre-cancer cells like what time you're forty almost everybody will have what you could consider precancerous or cancerous cells what you don't want to uncontrolled growth of this house and you can you can affect that by understanding the idiosyncrasies of cancer metabolism, but just to keep it simple you want to experience ketosis and or fasting for Sunny extended periods of time to me that means at least two to three days.

This is all work in progress with basement good literature.

So I would do say I do one 3-day fast meaning water per month.

Typically, I'll finish Thursday dinner and then fast Sunday dinner and I'm a combine that with this is addressing cancer in partner other mortality causes of course, but I might use hyperbaric oxygen.

At like 2.

5 atmospheres for 60 to 90 minutes a week.

Straight from Dominic dagostino who had on the podcast use looked at the use of hyperbaric oxygen not only ketogenic diet and fasting but also exoticness ketones like mixing up a powder and drinking it like Gatorade and how that can extend lifespan in rats different species other things.

I would consider would be if was looking at pills cuz everybody asked me about this I would say the medication that has the most support that I find compelling me metformin right now glucophage metformin there are side effects.

But I do know a lot of them these were using a prophylactically to extend to decrease the likelihood of dying from a few different things checked those be first of mine.

Don't drive a car baby number three.

And what's the Delta from a 4-Hour Body to now mental intervention physical especially when it comes to mental illness how to do figure out how could one seater out what is keeping them awake at night or what makes their sleep quality for other two things.

I would say, they're the obvious ones, but sometimes they obviously important.

Let me address the variable question first.

So there are there controlled studies where you're looking for certain people you and you're looking for a certain power.

And you care a lot about isolating variables.

If you care about results first and foremost, you can still identify what the primary movers are, but I'll do it after the fact I mean by that is right.

Now, I have extreme elbow tendonitis.

Actually, I'm fixed most of it but that's that's a whole separate conversation and I did it by throwing maybe 6 variables at it at a time and I do six at a time and then if it helped I could then take your first and foremost about training I could remove variables and see what the impact reversal effects Etc was.

So gentle and throwing quite a bit at the problem and then removing variables once I have a winning combination for me with insomnia it was Replacing coffee with t ending with pretty high-powered tea or you can start with decaf tea and actually take Vivarin caffeine pill cut it into quarters.

So now you have was just have to be 25 mg quarter and you can start decreasing your caffeine intake as a known quantity has opposed to a cup of coffee since very highly highly variable so you can have a decaf + 100 mg first day, right? And then you do that three days next to a $75 50 twenty-five more effective ways to detox yourself.

That was one is then limiting caffeine consumption past about 5 p.

m.

But everybody's heard that stuff to that.

I found tremendously impactful, but I did test and isolation B1.

some type of meditation in the morning So 20 minutes, let's say you can start with 10000 app like headspace which is been very popular fly my fans vegetation in the morning depends a lot on your husband soumya for me.

It was the monkey mind.

It was just the Machinery.

I couldn't get the the cogs in the wheels to stop moving.

I was all I was still in problem-solving mode meditation the morning reading fiction before bed.

Take you into a storytelling or story consuming as opposed to problem-solving mode.

Flux or something like flux to change the light emitted from your laptop or screen and last I will how should I do this a friend of mine found microdosing psychedelics to be very helpful in a sub hallucinogenic level with perhaps psilocybin or something along those lines.

God forbid you think I'm suggesting that I would never highly responsible.

But you know, I don't make the news I just report the news.

I need to another online question.

You were known to be an aggressive marketer for the 4-Hour workweek.

How does 2016 Tim react to 2017 is pitch and asks, you know, it's a good question.

2017-2017 was I think he was tolerable and for the farthest for these probably pushed a little too hard what he didn't know.

And he couldn't have known is what really what really busy actually means at a high level.

So I would say for instance.

I shoot off an email to someone to try to get them to look at a 10 minutes excerpt of the book that I took ages to put together and it's like this only take 10 minutes and then reply with like I don't have the time like I didn't say this is 1500.

Ml.

I get probably a hundred unsolicited book sent to me a week a week to you.

Here's one reason of probably a hundred Y and now I have much more empathy.

And compassion for the things to pick up some reason get back to me for months never attribute.

This is another quote.

I find radius will never attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence, but I would add to that never attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence or busyness.

So take me to why not take it personally.

I assume it's not personal give give yourself the benefit of the doubt because you're going to be the one who takes like the imaginary shrapnel and carries it around with you like acid in the vessel for 4 weeks on end if you hold grudges, so I think you did a pretty good job, but I could definitely be a little overbearing at point, but I don't know if that's something I change.

I don't know.

I mean it I'm too maybe superstitious to think that That would be pretty happy with how things worked out.

So not sure I would have changed everything but it's very aggressive with joints and suffered a lot of pain and surgery as a result in them.

That's about it.

I have a question around the experiments and projects that you need and do your own your own.

I'm wondering about Vision so you may not have a five-year plan.

But what is the vision towards what you Orient towards on your debit day-to-day basis in terms of like moment-by-moment, who are you becoming and I'm wondering what would that look like for you with that vision is a tricky one unless I take it really literally and it's like In like the Dances with Wolves like sweat lodge kind of sense, which that's an awesome a b conversation that requires some level of other substances, but the in terms of who I would like to be honest.

I wasn't so cheesy and I have a better answer but I'll put it out there anyway, cuz I do think about it with Molly is like I saw this billboard in love when it said be the person your dog thinks you are actually really good advice really really profound advice.

We going to think about it, but the vision I think would be the right back into this is still the podcast put out more books.

Why do these various things why Focus like I'm backing out of the startups focusing more on the creation in the interviewing research and I feel like that is my Archimedes lever for larger change and to give a precise example.

I've spent a lot of time around lawmakers and politicians.

I can't play that game.

I have too many skeletons outside of my closet too many in my closet.

He's way too many drugs and I'm not I'm not going to line which is sort of a prerequisite for that for at least part of the time.

But what I realized is if I have a very well-educated very well-heeled in some cases influential audience.

I can help steer that ship.

From afar kind of like a a football coach calling commands without actually having to have my hands on the wheel I can influence it and I've used that already to affect certain things like the legality of shark fin importation in a couple of states in the u.

s.

In the process of funding Research into using for instance psilocybin to dress treatment-resistant depression at Johns Hopkins.

And that is those experiments that will ultimately lead me to probably change or attempt to change laws and policy because you can be a chess piece on the board.

You be the best piece of the board better be a pain that's kind of where we all start.

I think they need me just player then give her a good person designs the game in the first place and ultimately in that store Cascade.

That's the most powerful position for biting people think they can start now immediately start using tomorrow or today is important to me.

That's the micro that can affect the macro but directly affecting the chessboard is something I want to do, but I'm playing a long game with that because to do it right I have to purchase very very methodically for me personally.

I think that I want to be more and I am much better but to reflect more on what like to be happy with what I have.

Pause and reflect and how fortunate I am in so many ways because if I don't do that nothing I get will ever make me happy content and I'm really good at you.

Like I can knock down walls.

I'm really good at it.

But that is only one side only one piece of the whole equation.

And on top of that I would say this is a twofer is being a practicing and immersing myself spending a lot of time in groups.

That means mixed groups meaning mixed-gender.

It also means in this is very out of favor is a topic of conversation with like small groups.

Augmentin for me and spending.

Of time in that environment.

It's just a I find it.

Inexplicably in a way therapeutic and I think that if you look at our evolutionary biology, look at tribal societies my most recent podcast with Sebastian Junger gets into this quite a bit.

We're in such a sensitive political climate not telling you to run around touch everybody but like there is almost there's like no physical contact and there is it's extremely I think Problematic for us as organisms to to to live the way we currently live.

So I think I needed that and part and parcel with that is developing greater compassion and empathy or just rediscovering that sell long answer.

I apologize, but that's by the reflect on it for me personally, that would be on my question you've experimented with interview structure of your podcast a few times and sharing a bottle of wine with a Storyteller.

What is work the best I've tried many things non interview formats the podcast in what part of what is great about treating things as an experiment and being very vocal about the fact that you're doing that is that you get like hall passes to do all sorts of zany harebrained ship.

So no big surprise.

There's a point where like Wine makes you funnier and then you just feel like you're getting funnier, but you're no longer funny.

There's definitely a point where the whole scale flips on that.

But what I found work very well.

My guess is at least an hour and a half up to 3 hours when she get the three most people to start running out of gas.

I break the interview generally in my mind in 2/3 first third would be developing rapport offering vulnerabilities of my own.

So you hear me offering stories in my own in beginning is not because I wanted to be the temperature show, even though it literally is going to be just me talking.

I'm offering multiple pieces so that they will reciprocate and that's something I learned from Neil Strauss.

It works really well.

So I'm trying to crack the ice.

First third is basically getting through some of their bio.

We're not getting through projects and breaking the ice and also getting through some of their satellites second.

Third would be audience questions often times our questions informed by the audience and then the the tail end of that second third is whatever they want to pitch or talk about a promote if they have something then rapid fire questions answered my usual set and then the clothes And I find that structure works very well for me in my experience.

It takes at least an hour sometimes more unless you know the person already to get through their usual deck and if you do a lot of media as I do, I'm just guilty this is anyone else we talked about preserving your like decision-making creative creativity.

It was one of those you do that as you figure out which stories and answers were clear, but I want to get original material so you have to burn through that and it takes about an hour hour-and-a-half.

And that's the general format for a lot of crap that goes into that of course other formats that work very well that I hadn't seen any other podcast try but again asking the question.

What would it look like if it were easy was like that's really hard to schedule.

These people are really really busy people super hard to schedule.

What if I just had the questions submitted and voted on Reddit or Facebook or somewhere and then took the top 10 emailed them bought them a Mike.

Atr2100 my favorite kind of all-purpose mic USB cord whenever you want and Popova brain pickings So Good Sam Harris killed some good.

Some of them are better than others, but I do like the wine but I've realized he got a Segway into the wind like halfway through or you're going to be really sloppy for the end.

So I think the Matt mullenweg episode Start with t and then segue tequila for the second half.

That was a good format.

We didn't get to off the rails in the many podcasts and books that you've written a tremendous amount of individual experiments and so have your gas but my question is like, okay, let's get back to your your tribe here that you want.

Let's say say if you have a bunch of adult followers and you know, you want to make your own tribe.

What would you basically have them do whether it's for you know their own betterment or for your own personal experimentation then do for like the greater good or what I have them do to solidify their own tribe.

I mean actually like let's say you have an adult boot camp, you know, you get like a a group of people.

However, they are 20 people or something like that for 30 days and I'm kind of wondering like would you run an experiment or would you have to be as tight as possible? To be as tight tightly bonded actually that's part of the question.

You know, what I guess what would your goal be? Because I would like I said for their own betterment or for your own experimentation, I would have equal and I would find someone who's in my position is female to lead the equivalent for women because I would like to think I've been busy but I don't have enough empathy to understand what it's like to be a woman.

I just bought the check so it could be split in which specific in different groups.

and the activities so I wouldn't have a goal.

It wouldn't be like you no Fight Club operation Mayhem at the end or anything.

I wouldn't have.

Like a a single thing for them to do afterwards potentially actually take the back there be a lot of hardship and suffering.

There's two little miss two little productive suffering in the US right now.

It's like that does not help anyone.

It really doesn't so good at feeling in overcoming it coming back for it.

That's the real role.

Like that's what I want to train people to be able to handle sit there used to like fighting each other in this big blow up sumo suits and they're like, I'm awesome and they go out and then get like round kick in the head by UFC fighters.

As most people are not layer with the true sensation of being hungry.

I wasn't decades like really hungry not like oh my God, I'm grumpy.

I haven't I'm hungry.

I haven't had cashews in 4 hours know like really hungry.

Like you haven't eaten in 3 days hungry and physical discomfort or pain.

I'll probably have people doing outdoor activities like building debris Huts or something like that.

No screens whatsoever.

No alarm clocks cell for the first few days people come in decaf.

They would be tight ring off the caffeine and they would wake up whenever they woke up like for the first time maybe getting a actual rest of the name 10 years and I would spend a lot of the time and this is straight from Sebastian Junger.

I think you saw what do you do in 9th or 10th grade? I would have people working on projects like small projects that were very difficult and we would rotate in terms of who was leading a given group was just say let me small groups New for Pete like five groups of four.

Everybody would have an opportunity to complete a project.

And it would not be totally Democratic at all.

I can be like, okay, like you guys like the people who were the dictators that's exactly what you said.

This is not like a flat organization know like you are like the platoon leader.

That's it or maybe not the best analogy you're the dictator and every exercise of being tended to put people out of their comfort zone physically emotionally psychologically mentally so that when they come out the other end, they are better at this is probably the only part that I might teach cuz we do post-mortems on all of these would be the ability to learn quickly and ability to teach other people and Michael are wrong in the way.

It's been to create like a benevolent Army of people who are expert Learners incredibly high-level top 1% meddlers who Can learn to be better at anything I've done you can then teach people in trying to be better than they are.

That seems like the right Trend.

So I think that's actually fantasized about this like a dog boot camp thing that we all the fantasizing about it a lot but it would just be like champagne who just feel like it's not coming out soon.

I really enjoyed.

I know the guy who produced it called the rise of the sufferfests.

I think there's part of us that really subconscious Lee yearns to be tested like nobody's really tested these days and like in holistic way like a really painful way to rite of passage so I but I think we'd be like we're program I need that one that said, yeah, I think that if the camp might get pretty low reviews given amount of pain involved.

I don't know.

But yeah, I do I do fantasize about it.

But yeah beat the goal would be Master metal earners have a high pain tolerance who expanded their sphere of comfortable action and a really good helping other people to do the same thing and thank you very much for coming speaking to us really good.

Hey guys, this is Tim again.

Just a few more things before you take off.

Number one.

This is five.

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