0 Plays
The Random Show – New Favorite Books, Memory Training, and Bets On VR

This is not going to be a long-form interview where I dissect and deconstruct a world-class performer…at least not in the usual fashion. Instead, this is a special edition of The Random Show. I am joined by Kevin Rose (@KevinRose), serial entreprene

Published: 03.07.2016 | Description ist written by The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss

Comments
Transcript auto-created

Optimal minimum at this altitude.

I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.

I'm a cybernetic organism living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

This episode is brought to you by wealthfront.

And this is a very unique sponsor wealthfront is a massively disruptive in a good way set-it-and-forget-it investing service led by technologist for places, like apple and world famous investors.

It has exploded in popularity in the last 2 years and they now have more than two and a half billion dollars under management.

In fact, some of my very good friends investors in Silicon Valley have millions of their own money in wealthfront.

Why is it so popular? Why is it unique? Because you can get service has previously reserved for the ultra-wealthy but only pay pennies on the dollar for them and this because he's smarter software instead of retail locations bloated sales team to Tedder and I'll come back to that in a second.

I suggest you check out wealthfront.

com forward Tim take the risk assessment quiz, which one takes two to five minutes and I'll show you for free exactly the portfolio they put you out and if you just want to take their advice run with it do it yourself, you can do that or as I would you can set it and forget it and here's why the valley Wealthfront is in the automation of habits and strategies that investors should be using on a regular basis but normally aren't great investing is a marathon not a Sprint and little things that you may or may not be familiar with like automatic tax-loss harvesting rebounds in your portfolio across more than 10 asset classes and dividend reinvestment add up to very large amounts of money over longer periods of time wealthfront as I mentioned since using software instead of retail locations Etc can offer all of this at low cost that were previously completely impossible right off the bat.

You never pay commissions or canopies for everything.

They charge to 5% per year on assets above the first 15,000 which is managed for free if you use my link wealthfront.

com Tim that is less than $5 a month to invest a $30,000 account for is not normally when I have a sponsor on the show is because I use them and recommend them in this case two little different.

I don't use wealthfront yet because I'm not allowed to here's the deal.

They wanted to sponsor this.

Podcast but because of SEC regulations companies that invest your money are not allowed to use client testimonial so I couldn't be a user and have them on the podcast but I've been so impressed by wealthfront that I've invested a significant amount of my own money at least for me in the team in the company itself.

So I am an investor and hope to soon use it as a client now back to the recommendation as a Tim Ferriss show listener, you'll get $15,000 manager free if you decide to open an account, but just start with seeing the portfolio that they would suggest for you take 2 minutes fill out their questionnaire at wealthfront.

com.

Tim fast free.

There's no downside that I can think up.

This episode has brought you by 99designs 99designs is a great part of creating and growing your business.

It's a One Stop Shop for all of your graphic design needs whether that's a logo website business card or anything else.

I use 99designs to get book cover prototypes for the 4-Hour Body which went on to become a number one New York Times bestseller.

They also use them for banner ads illustrations and other things with 99designs designers around the world to compete create the best design for you.

You give feedback and then pick your favorite you end up happy or your money back.

It's very simple.

You can check out a few of my own designs and those of yours meaning Tim Ferriss show listeners at 99designs.

com Tim.

And right now my listeners you guys will get a free $99 upgrade on your first day.

That's 99designs.

com for Tim.

Check it out.

Blue ladies and germs, this is Tim Ferriss and welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss show.

Where does my job to deconstruct world-class performers whether they are from the worlds of Athletics business strategy of any type or fashion entertainment or otherwise, this episode is a difference who is not going to be a long form interview where I dissect and deconstruct a world-class performer, or at least not in the usual fashion Instead This is a special edition of The Rim show.

I'm joined by my usual co-host in this capacity Kevin Rose app Kevin rose on Twitter serial, entrepreneur world-class investor in that is not an exaggeration.

He's one of the best product guys for those in Silicon Valley OR tech and investors.

I know what makes him unique perhaps is an unusual combination and that is he's very good at early-stage investing very early stage seed investing and also very good at the public markets and he's also a all-around wild and crazy guy which makes for a fun conversation.

So we go all over the place.

We talked about new favorite books memory training multiple wives, or maybe I talked about that bet for or against virtual reality and much much more.

So please say hi to us on the socials and enjoy.

Little boys and girls and welcome to another episode of the random show.

I think it is episode 477 on Tim Ferriss and I'm Kevin Rose.

Thanks for joining us.

It's been awhile to be precise.

It has been a long while yes, and we are sitting in your new place just moved in today lot of Life Changes speak about at talking about speaking of sorry.

I've had that's where I'm going to have to glass of wine speaking of random show me up today or last night.

I didn't know it was like midnight it on Tuesday and it was yesterday was Tuesday.

I'm like, I'm not getting out of bed till you're in town for one night.

That's Ryan when you just sent to just a sniper shot and then out and I'm excited to dig in because we have A bunch of new interests, but we also have new questions yet as I realized when I was just developing my Bambi legs in the podcast and interview game episode 1 episode 1 of the Tim Ferriss show, which we didn't even have a name for that point.

Although you nominated tim-tim talk talk when I still think that's the best name and I think she could help Kevin has stuck in people still refer to distinctive talk.

I think so.

I hopefully involved and not devolve but I remember you giving me so much shit.

When I asked you I put together my list of questions that I asked if she could be a breakfast if you had me to breakfast cereal, which would you be in your like it's going to be one of those interviews and I was like stop busting my balls.

I'm nervous already know you're my friend recording audio.

And so I want to I'm going to be at some point lob some questions at you that I've asked a lot of my other guests that I don't know your answers to and it sounds like you have some top-secret question to Vale we decided to go before the show, you know, 10 minutes been probably 5-10 minutes putting together kind of just a bullet list of outline stuff at want to talk about and you mentioned want to do those new kind of refreshed questions on me.

And so of course, I'm going to come back to you and do some on you as well because you know, you're always on the interviewing side of this equation.

Why not? Back to you and see what you come up with because I feel like you really are guess sometimes you like.

What would you put on the billboard then? We'll see.

We'll see how well I can tap dance run better at the asking honestly the answering of questions, but do you know anything new on your Snapchat also say just because you were wondering at the prep so we both pull it out a couple of ideas or Items that are new for us were there books are gizmos or otherwise, but we don't share those notes with each other before him.

Otherwise, it would be boring.

That's right.

So we tend to leave it to be just like fresh stuff that we just came up with its it's typically stuff that we've used to discover it since last time we saw each other that's right.

And so I've got I've got kind of three things you want me to take it off of the first one.

Yes, please.

So this one is actually thanks to you.

I called you on the phone and talk to you about this.

The TM meditation Transcendental Meditation is a form of meditation that I hadn't actually heard of it until you first brought it up.

I have another buddy a niche has been doing it since he was a child, you know any issues in my bachelor party you and then also our mutual friend.

Dr.

Peter attia.

I was just talking to Mom like a what are some great ways that you reduce stress in your life is like all I've looked at the literature like TM.

He's he's training as well and it's like Just go and he didn't an introduction to some of the folks over at the center and I was like, okay.

Well, I got to go get this a shot and I I called you like what you think and you were like, well, I was introduced to bring It full circle.

So of course Peters been on the podcast.

Yeah, and I was convinced to do my first proper training with TM by two other guess.

So it was Chase Jarvis and Rick Rubin house crazy.

I effectively ask them the same question that you asked Peter and I just took a while to for me to get it through my thick skull that I should try it because of the costs involved in various things and such eat it's not cheap and I may hopefully collaborate with some folks involved at the higher levels of TM to change that we will see but they're there some quirky aspects to it, right and just how you send me a photograph of My Sacrifice.

Where is in fruit and I drank the blood of Christ at Communion and what not and I did all that stuff.

So I'm used to you know, certain formalities around certain things, you know, I go to the introduction meeting which is free and you sit down and then you're like almost in like a church typesetting and you know, they're like, hay like welcome they kind of start explaining some stuff and I'm like, okay this all sounds great everything.

You're saying sounds great.

Like he was the costume like a little pricey.

But if it's going to change my life, whatever and then they like the way on your first day, I want you to bring three pieces of fruit and some flowers for like the introduction to like the dude in the offering that you must give him on the table.

We bring him since I was like, what do you mean there's a large mural of the dude from The Big Lebowski hits right now.

So, you know, whatever.

I'm I'm I'm not going to buy an if it's any kind of religious.

They are his making faces are we allowed to talk about this, by the way, this is the other thing they told us like we can talk about any of this stuff a ringing endorsement of the benefits of TM probably but there's some weird stuff.

You doing a dead cat over your head 13th and Mantra so hum mantra for people that don't know there's a few different types of meditation.

The type that I'm used to is to headspace variety, which is the app, which is mindfulness.

Meaning you sit there you follow your breath, you know you the attention is directed at the at the end and outflow of your breath and that's kind of it.

So Mantra peace meditation is taking a word that doesn't mean anything and you repeated over and over and over in your head until you sit there for 20 minutes and you take this word and it just like let's say it's cheeseburger and she's like Cheeseburger Cheeseburger Cheeseburger Cheeseburger is somewhat hypnotic state.

Did you find that that's kind of where it took you as well it does it work and I should say you can think of it at least and I'm sure they're people who are experts in this who would take issue with the analogy, but you can think of it almost as a white noise machine for a waking states of using white noise machines help you get to sleep.

Let's say then this should be the equivalent for helping you to achieve a Sony Alpha brainwave level of relaxed attentiveness that you that some people might associate with flow so does right he'll be getting rid of a hypnotic State ends in what it where I find it very helpful is if you feel compelled when you practiced or attempted meditation in the past to cut a SWOT, your thoughts away is if they're like flies buzzing in your face, they can get very very frustrating and by repeating the mon trim you are effectively overriding a lot of the internal dialogue or monologue, right? But yes, you can get into a very very altered state of sorts enhanced it.

Yeah, so, you know, what's funny is it it's a 4-day training course and I did the first day and it was literally the Fruit sacrifice then the introduction of the Mantra and by the way, the reason I said, it's cheeseburger cheeseburger is like they give you this Mantra and you're not allowed to tell to anyone.

It's it's like private just to you later.

I look him up online and there's like, you know when 15 of them so you can just guess which one my nose starts with a M.

But you do that and then I was a little upset I finished a one I was like, why did I what did I really pale as money for this? Like what I have to say.

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'm going to go back Friday to and I went back today to and it all made sense after day too and I stay for the entire four days in the reason being is it's not be clear when you say four days.

At least when I went through the process you really it's like an hour to two hours a day and a half per day yasso Indy to it's funny cuz you learn it is really easy, but D2 through 4 is all about helping you get over the little hurdles that appear throughout the entire process and it's funny how they they occur for everyone.

It sounds really simple.

But as you're doing the Mantra certain things happen, like all the sudden for me, I was doing the Mantra and I started sinking the Mantra with my heartbeat and I'm like, well, that's weird.

And then of course I distract me to take me away from the Mantra and then I don't I don't know what to do.

I'm kind of Frozen and so imagine like that but with their probably 15 different things that you'll run into their distractions and they teach you how to can I come back to the Mantra how to embrace that stuff in and it's really that's what the value is a simple radical tactical stuff.

You were there.

I think to Chief benefits at least for me one is you have someone holding you accountable to meditate for two sessions in between the inverse of meetings.

In other words.

There is a consequence Iea embarrassment to not performing the assigned work.

That's where I was when I tried meditation the past I buy a book and be like 90% of this makes no sense.

I don't understand but here's a little side bar fine.

I'll follow my breath and I am I doing this right? I don't know.

I filled all these thoughts.

I'm no good at this.

I'm losing a meditation.

I quit after few days.

I would stop doing it.

But when you have someone you going to be with each day is going to want in that hour and a half to talk about your last two sessions do post-game analysis and help you with the issues that came up right? You feel compelled given that social pressure of sorts.

Yeah.

It is great A man that sunk costs quite frankly.

I think that if I were to point to a benefit of the payment, although I hesitate to do that but one of the benefits you in a beneficial ways to come to the sun cost fallacy earlier already paid for it, so might as well do it.

Yeah.

I honestly I asked a ton of questions got a lot of value out of it sounds great and it's been about a month and a half.

I've been practicing in doing 40 minutes of meditation every day 7 days a week to session Splendid sessions, but the 20 minutes and I don't know.

I mean, I feel a little bit more relaxed that and I certainly like for me my pressure points are if too much is going on in my life meaning if I have a lot of travel combined with word combined with board meetings can buy with fundraising or whatever is going on when I can certain critical mass.

I kind of like break down a little bit and that's that's where it's just too much going on.

Why you laughing I'm laughing because this is Navin anyone else.

I don't know what why you have this particular defect I mean, but if that hasn't happened as much and I've been able to weather the storm a lot better.

I don't I'm not experiencing any type of affect other than just like I would do the meditation and I will come out of it and A slight days.

In fact, they tell you when you finish the session the 20-minute session to spend 3 minutes.

I'm just kind of slowly reintroducing yourself to the world like coming up from scuba diving.

Okay, hold on exactly and it's funny because I said that three minutes I just got up and when I felt a little weird afterwards and end the lady at the it wasn't striking me said actually if that's going to happen and you know, you have to run you have to go out someplace cut back the meditation time and still spend that 3 minutes cuz it's really important you go pretty deep inside yourself and your kind of little dazed and people can get headaches are all kinds of things.

They come out too fast and the shirt that you printed for herself, which says that's what she said married my wife.

She makes those kind of jokes.

At dinner, we had a really nice dinner together and Arya said you have been a rock like this.

This it that the in the best way possible meaning very stable and a dramatic difference and I think that for someone who is doing that type of work, it can be in some not all cases difficult to discern the progress because it's like if you're gaining a half pound of fat a month until a decade later, you're really pretty fat but you won't notice nearly the the point being is terrible comparison, but it's like the boiling frog but that you don't notice the Improvement because you're exposed to it every day.

Right and I noticed a big change in my sleep particular.

The onset of sleep has changed dramatically.

I will be the first to admit.

I am not as consistent at all with afternoon session, so it's mostly for me for In the morning and this particular type of meditation I would say it's probably not for everyone but it can be very useful for some people.

I think the social accountability the the camaraderie and also teacher-student relationship was what was most important for me.

Once you pay for the session it is I think it's the cost has decreased over time from like 1500 to 1231 so that the teacher was like to come back anytime.

You don't have to pay anything hang out and I'll help you if you had running anymore Roblox like there really a friendly people.

So let me get a couple of suggestions the first is and the team Folks by can hate me for this but you can experiment with this right using some type of Mantra and I hate that term.

I think it's a very loaded.

But you can use a word that is saved like a two syllable word like nature.

I like nature nature and very common mantras home.

Also first for some people who are allergic to yoga.

Like I was for a long time of negative associations, you can use that.

I'm actually even though I do have them on trabue just nature that exact start with the letter it starts with a few superstitions that I hold onto way.

You totally during now I also don't like using red pens.

Are you serious signing anything with water? How much precipitation? I know not what she saying.

I am doing for some reason.

I just don't like the idea of like everyone drink alcohol and I'm not I don't have a glass of alcohol.

We won't be late for that.

But for an experienced anything, you can to the bootleg and imperfect variation of it an experiment.

I do think that you would do I benefit from it.

But like you said having someone who can answer very specific questions like okay, you travel a lot.

What are you going to do? If room service knocks on the door comes in when you're riding a meditation like what are the options? What is optimal etc, etc, and going through all those contingencies do this for that matter and Tom is another one.

That's what I listen to other people.

There are others who've enjoyed and I've enjoyed quite frankly.

I'm not a purist about it.

I've used guided meditations from Tara Brach.

Who's introduced to me by Maria of brain pickings Popova Maria? I need to I need to do a refresher on your name pronunciation.

I apologize.

Was it up over? There we go.

I'm being we need our assistance fact Checker and I the guided meditations by tar Brock b r a c h r fantastic.

She's also been on the podcast Sam Harris has some great guided meditations.

I think it's the same Harris.

Org and their many options out there for starting your day off in a relaxed non-reactive calmly effective State and those are some of the options I agree with you.

I would say if you're going to try Mantra bass meditation try to pair up with a friend or something that you know, that's done it before they can help you get over those hurdles.

If you don't want to pay for the the class the nice thing about paying for the class the only Nice thing about paying that much money is it truly is a forcing function to make you take it seriously.

I mean that I went today too because I was kind of pissed I was like, why did I pay as much for coming to get something out of it? You know and then I went I was like, okay actually I get it with a lot of skills.

Also, they're very frustrating.

I tried that your house.

So slacklining is did it on the end most people completely lose interest and quit after the first or second session is neurological.

There's not been not capable of the neurological and muscular control and coordination.

Do you require certain number of sleep cycles? And as far as I can tell to consolidate this like procedural knowledge meditation in this particular case is very very similar.

It's like going out in snowboarding in like I don't know if anyone's birthday snowboarding was like that was so much fun.

Right you just eat shit and smash your head on the slopes or your ass and tailbone the entire time frame, right? And if if in the world of meditation that's where 95 + percent of people quit but if they were forced to do 5 days they would they would see the potential right? I don't have one good run or one good stretching to be like, okay now I'm hooked a lot right surf from headspace 10 minutes a day.

That was the first time where I got through all ten days and I was like it was about date or as I call I get it.

I'm coming out of this more relaxed than feeling stronger as an individual after I do this.

Anyway, we want to say is it's it's very similar to physical training for Non reactivity.

So if you're interested in have been interested in the stoic philosophical episodes that have been on this podcast before we're late to Seneca and so on the number to Holiday if that interests you as an operating system for for thriving in high-stress environments that meditation is one of the one of these found or mindfulness which both terms bother me, but that type of non reactivity training that mentally as you would train yourself physically is a foundational skill a medical that allows all the other pieces to the puzzle of function will be all right, and that was a couple of specific is a fiction book that I just finished tonight and I said Fiction with that particular emphasis because I have almost always been a nonfiction stop in the sense that I've taken a very Hoity toity position with fiction, which is what I want to make stuff up.

I can do that myself.

I want to get something something concrete out of this actionable take was this until I realized a few errors in that thinking up the first is that just like As is the case with movies, there are movies for entertainment.

There's movies for their their their movies or TV shows just for complete stress relief, right like a dumb and dumber or something like that.

You're brilliant in their own way and then their documentaries that you might watch like fog of War to learn something or two.

And I think it's very true as reading not only that but that you can better remember and incorporate some of the lessons from fiction because there are stories World.

Well told him your program to be story remembering machines the truth and the truth is that are embedded in fiction often are more utilitarian than the not the dense non-fiction that you're not those just gonna fall through your brain or out of your brain like sand through the fingertips that's been my experience.

I've actually realized that fiction can have not only a rejuvenating relaxing effect.

By turning off your problem solving apparatus, but you can actually incept yourself were in bed truth that are helpful.

And that one book that that was actually recommended by our mutual friend.

Chris sacca was a who's been on this podcast on track to be or if not already the most successful Venture Capital Electric albums of all time based on his first upon the novel is how to get filthy rich in rising Asia.

I think I'm getting the title.

Right and I'm blanking on the author's name Pakistani author and that's that's as I remember it and it is a fascinating novel.

It's beautifully written and the I've never seen such incredibly glowing reviews of any Buck.

I mean, it's it's just a woven together and such a powerful way.

And what makes it very very unique is The voice that is used and that the prospective so the entire book is written from first-person what I mean by that is it's like you awake to pain in your left eye you're laying down under your mother's caught with your head on the dirt when I like this.

Is he a cool and I I was told about this by Chris who is like a video game almost it does and Chris told me about this and I thought to myself afterwards I should really think I should really read that and second thought was that can seat like that way of writing the book will be really fascinating and cute for like 10 pages.

And then it's going to drive me insane Ray and it didn't at all you just seamlessly become this character and it's a I don't want to discuss spoil it but it it goes it's and it's written as a parody of a self-help book.

Which is awesome and hilarious and there's a lot of Truth and a lot of Timeless wisdom in better than this book on Audible or just sure it is.

Thank you.

Yeah, there we go.

Thank you.

How to get filthy rich in rising.

Asia a novel.

Mohsin Hamid.

Moha s i n last name h a m i d.

I have no internet at the house right now quote and there are many like this from Michiko kakutani of the New York Times a day shift Hameed reaffirms.

His place is one of his generation the most inventive and gifted writers.

It's a beautifully written book something wrong if people are looking for a a shifting the gears perhaps a break from the Relentless pursuit of dry facts then I think this is a fantastic way to spend Few days I got someone to this I read this book and maybe three days tops.

I think two days probably read it in a weekend.

It's it's it's fantastic.

That would be the most recent read that I'm into I'll bring up one other one.

That's really weird or maybe an odd odd choice in an impulsive purchase does a book of poetry.

I'm not a poetry reader and I was I in a Barnes & Noble at Union Square New York City and there was a there was a Sabbath Lewiston collection of poetry sitting there called.

I need to re-examine.

I think it's night with Exit Wounds.

And I think the author is Ocean vuong on the Quarry Title, by the way, it's fantastic.

And the last name.

I'm pretty sure is Vietnamese vuong and as I got it, right it's a night with Exit Wounds and I was like woah.

Night sky with Exit Wounds.

Thank you.

And I opened up this book.

It's very small and I started reading one poem in the morning when I wake up and one at night or if I feel stressed I use it just like I use fiction to sort Short Circuit the procon hyper analytical what if brain that can drive me completely Bonkers and it works works really well now we'll warn people would I didn't know about this and I'm not.

I don't think it would have affected my purchase but his father is very gay and very explicit hardcore action in this in this book that you're reading a lot and did some crazy shit.

I will probably happen a few times but the language and some of the poems I don't like at all and that's okay but like every third or fourth I read and this is a first for me.

the wording is so evocative of unusual imagery like a night sky with Exit Wounds that it twists my brain.

It's almost like mental yoga.

It's a big is my brain struggles to piece together an image that makes sense.

And a lot of these poems don't seem to make a lot of sense but there are four five turns of phrase that stretch my ability to visualize in such a way that I find it just opens doors to perception or gives me other lenses through which I can view the rest of my day sounds odd.

I know but and I've never really Read or pursued poetry in this way, but I'm very impulsive chancing very impulsive purchase based on chancing across this book and I really enjoyed it.

So I think it's going to reignite my interest in certain types of poetry like those that were introduced to me by Rolf Potts the writer and author vagabonding one of my favorite books today.

That's a to be continued and I don't think I will become a poet.

I don't have that sort of the hubris to think that I have the capacity for that.

But also the woods book is formatted is so odd as someone is accustomed to Narrative fiction or nonfiction because the words will be scattered around the page for one phone than the next will be an unbroken paragraph of text with no punctuation punctuation and it's just so jolting that I find it serves as a pattern in trip for me.

Just going to like it sounds like an art in a way a little piece of art and ever.

Absolutely is so that some that's been an interesting experiment unintended experiment of mine recently.

That's awesome blast.

I would say is maybe not the last but probably would have some questions after this is That I am going to be as promised donating at least $100,000 to psychedelic research at top universities this year 2016 and I've already raised I think it was 90 something thousand dollars for Johns Hopkins and looking at the use of psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression depression that has not been addressable by any conventional means and I'm going to be doing more work and funding research has a thank you first and foremost everybody who contributed to that Community cute success things are already underway very excited about what will be discovered that can be used in that trial.

What is that? Give me the the quick 30 seconds for people that aren't familiar with this.

Like, what is the trial? What are you testing? I get that it's it's depression that can be treated with anything else.

But what what is the actual trial look like? What do they receive of this the structure of the trials of I will if you want to read all the details I can get a crowdrise.

com Tim Ferriss the trial has actually been upgraded.

So what happened it will be relatively small sample size.

So if I'm pulling this from memory, but I think it's 6 to 12 people.

Can I be on this questionnaire and qualify for it? But the the purpose is to determine whether it is I again upon this from memory.

So encourage people to change their website single or several administrations of standardized psilocybin.

And if I had this is again totally guessing that if I'm guessing play .

25, 2.

35 Megs per kegs milligrams per kilogram, which would translate to what would generally be considered a rope does.

And I'm getting this wrong, then you can go to my blog and leave a comment and let me know but to see the the effects measurable facts and Persistence of effects of psilocybin in patients who have not responded chronic depression that is not been addressable or treatable with other pharmaceutical or therapeutic means and they will be also using again Point remember this was a few months ago fmri, another Imaging tools to look at to try to determine how if there is a demonstrable statistically significant effect housel.

Simon has this particular friend and there is there a good science and more signs on the way to indicate that there are some incredibly powerful applications of psilocybin for instance in the treatment of Different types of addiction and it's not a Panacea can't be used for everything but in terms of nicotine addiction or alcoholism a tremendously effective at least based on these preliminary data that we have.

Thus far administering is psilocybin to someone much money is psilocybin.

Please give me a gold star it was to say that I'm doing a second campaign all sweet and I'm going to be instead of using crowdfunding because I want as ever everyone listening is launcher blister nose to run an experiment.

I want to I want to figure out not only what works in the scientific arena with these compounds or not.

But what are the most effective non-traditional ways of fundraising for scientific studies, so I'm going to be And I've already designed and will be selling a number of themed t-shirts that should be available by the time you hear this and that you can check those out by go to four hour work week.

Com / mushroom, which is traditionally wear one find psilocybin not all mushrooms.

So don't go out foraging yourself.

That's a good way to get dead.

But if we're good.

Come for such mushroom, and I'm curious to see if merchandising is a more efficient way to raise say $100,000 for scientific research, then crowdfunding and intern comparing those to the the usual approach which is a director of a of development for say doll in the blank University or fill in the blank.

Nonprofit has a dinner at someone's house where they invite a bunch of muckety-mucks and then they have one-on-one conversations infused with a lot of wine rag invincible.

Dollar store in a whale and I want to see if there are more elegant ways of doing it.

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

You're picking out the material.

What's the shirt is real sticklers always bug me when I want to give it to them.

So I've seen some shirts.

I would have been totally down to where that are.

These are from say South by Southwest.

We're like, every startup is giving away free shirts just generally waste the money by the way start up but some of them are so comfortable that I've worn ridiculous shirts are good material, but they give you like extra large moo moo shirt with like I buy 20in to make Play like a a minimally expensive shirt.

And as a result you wasted all of it went so it's like you spent whatever it is.

I'm making these numbers up like you spent $5 or like $2 or so and it's more like 10,000 shirts just because you don't want to spend fifteen thousand and now that tend Harley wasted Brian no one's going to where it where is you could have just spent 50% more and actually have some measurable Roi of something.

Anyway starts a pet.

Peeve.

I hate I think a lot about t-shirt Comfort.

I have a question about mushrooms.

Yes.

So, you know the typical College Kevin like, you know that has experience with mushrooms is you know, you get a chocolate you get bags.

I'm going to do it when you do these trials.

How did they how do they measure the size of the grinding up mushrooms and weighing them out? Like how do they actually your sister? My understanding is that it's synthesized.

Okay, he could be extracted.

This is actually one of the largest constraints and then with a compound that is effectively as tract and regulator dislike plutonium scheduled in the same class as cocaine and heroin, so it is extremely difficult to get the approvals on many different levels, including your IRB for human trials to initiate this type of research, but let's just say you get all the approvals and I'm making these numbers up.

I'm by wish I had a few people here to help me with accuracy.

But let's just for the sake of argument say that you get the approvals and then you want to get Save 5 grams of psilocybin.

It's something crazy like $15,000 a gram to get ahold of it because they're no kind of bees scale since the since the who's growing it.

The research is the prefix of 501 c 3 called if you could help me out here are you Sona uson are maybe USANA which has I believe they're behind this has purchased a very large quantity.

In bulk so they can then distribute at cost to researchers.

That's a really brilliant approach send doing this all through legitimate legal means so they have all the necessary clearances.

But what this does is it remove a removes the one of the largest constraints currently which is a capital constraint that universities have fundraising fundraising has to be allocated.

If you have a six-person study and it's going to cost whatever it is an additional fifty to a hundred grand even if all your research is well-planned, even if you get all of the proper boxes checked if you don't have the money you don't have the money is so this will impart remove that limitation.

So it it should greatly improve the the number of researchers who are performing studies.

Using suicide, which is very exciting.

That's right.

The first time I'd read about it being used in research was probably about a 6 months to 8 months ago.

There was a study that was done.

I don't know if you heard about the New York actually is kid that was actually studying to become a doctor came down with cancer and he was having absolutely horrible anxiety and he knew how to check himself because he's Premed and said he was like rubbing his lymph nodes all the time and like really freaking out to the point where the doctors were like you need to stop rubbing a limp as he was causing rashes where he was rubbing them to check for cancer, like just went off the deep end and the the have this study he took party swallow these these capsules whatever they had their psilocybin and knocked out his anxiety 100% even though he still had at the time like stage 4 cancer.

He was just okay with dying at that point.

This is where this is one of the areas that is Very active.

I mean very being relative to such a controlled substance is end-of-life anxiety or depression for is in one instance terminal cancer patients.

And so that there is no such a very good article written some time ago by Michael Pollan called the trip treatment, which was in the New Yorker very much worth reading and talks a good deal about this.

So that that is one type of study that I'm looking to and we'll be funding more in there.

I don't need to on deck and I think it's very important to fund studies that are easily defended at this point at this nascent stage of research with a very unfairly scheduled compound.

You have to really be on the up-and-up and Beyond best behavior and have is Any sort of insurance insurance has and insurances as possible to ensure that you can defend a study not just scientifically but politically brands of these these particular populations in the early stages are imported Choose Wisely and it's a very hard to say like fuck the cancer patient is going to die before I let that guy if you have as much as you have incredible anxiety and depression very very hard to attack that and similarly and I find it very compelling to look at the people resistant depression write something it is not responded to other medical objects to date or like their they've been very successful at creating cannabis related compounds to treat and help cancer patients with pain and other things that was kind of like the foot-in-the-door strategy to kind of open the door.

The further research hatchlings attentively definitely and I have spoken with spoken with some people who have had very deep involvement on the political legislative side with cannabis.

But yes, I do think their lessons to be learned both things to do in things not to do.

So, that's something that I continue to be very passionate so quick if you want some super comfy.

Make your nipples hard, but in a good way t-shirts go to four hour work week.

, mushroom and one is very subtle one is not so subtle and you can you can decide if you want to Sportsman team colors spend all of the proceeds.

I'm not keeping any of it.

All my purse is a hundred percent are going directly to research.

So that's something I'm very much looking forward to awesome.

All right, so I have one quick little book and then we can move it in the coon and some good ones do it.

All rights of the book that I'm halfway through right now and I hate to recommend something when I'm only halfway through but I'm really enjoying it so far is called moonwalking with Einstein I haven't but I know good at getting a good deal about it Joshua for that eventually went on to use covering national memory champion and so he was assigned this BT thought I was just going to write a single article about this memory Champions and then he got pulled into actually performing in learning the tricks of the trade to become a memory Champion now membership includes things like memorizing a the order of the cards in a shuffled deck that's right and then published poem handed to you names and faces of like 50 some people that and you like a big these cards with names and faces and you get like a minute to memorize all strings Maybe Same stuff that for someone like me that has a really horrible memory was like attracted to this book.

And so, you know kind of where I'm at right now they talk about this idea.

I'm sure you've heard this before the Memory Palace, you know much about that.

I know all about it.

Okay.

So what is your lokai technique and also I don't know if he's popped yet up yet in the book, but add to cook who's the coach in Moonlight with on Saturday at one of the coaches is very close friend of mine.

And he has been on the podcast talking about memories.

Are you serious? Yeah, we did it when I was on the west coast and he was in London.

So he was he had plenty of booze.

It was great.

These hilarious is a hilarious British.

So you should definitely check out the episode but he to the The Memory Palace Memory Palace has been used for ages in in one form or another in many different cultures.

And unless I'm getting this wrong, it's also called the loci technique which means location and the weights used is very simple.

You have a predetermined location or route that you're familiar with Ray and you can then in the process of giving yourself a tour of this location in a predetermined say clockwise fashion around the the perimeter of the inside of a concert hall or walking from your front door to your favorite coffee shop where you pass 16 different buildings in a bunch of different landmarks and so on you can place items that you want to remember along that route in a particular order, right and that allows you to do some very interesting things.

Not only can you remember things by using imagery which we are.

We are definitely visual creatures.

You can also recall them out of order so somebody could give you and let me get let me take one step further.

So if you wanted to remember I used to do this as a party trick in college.

I was really into the stuff for a very brief Flash and time.

I wasn't Neuroscience major.

I was very interested in how to stretch the capacity of cognition and you what you can do is take the abstract and convert into the concrete ideally into the form images and you can do that with With numbers for instance.

You could take the numbers from 1 to 100 and so 1 2 3.

Other than you like 2173.

Whatever might be the numbers 0 2 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 into specific letters and it's so let's just say zero is a store Z1 is t or d which both have one downstroke write three is m33 down Strokes for hazard.

Let's just say like 4 last letter are ready and so on and then let's just say you decide well in advance that That 12 as an example is 10 rent.

So dirty and then N2 downstairs so 10.

It's a anytime you have a 12 it's automatically 10 and maybe that's the Tin Man.

All right, and so let me show you where this goes.

So let's just say you have you are this what I used to do.

You have a route from your front door to your coffee shop and somebody gives you a save a $1 bill $5 bill at 10:20.

Do you say okay.

I'm going to memorize a serial code numbers on all this and give them back to you the way you would do that is what the way I did it at least is I would take out take pairs of numbers and going forth.

So it's a my first stop I walk out the door and there's a there's a yellow fire hydrant.

It's the first kind of landmark that I pass.

So if it's the first four numbers are like one, too.

just making this up like hazed.

Sorry 70 at making that up.

So it's the reason I said K is it 7:00 is a k and then zero zastrozzi.

Like I said to 1270.

So 10510 man 70 is Megan.

So let's say it's okay Cass would be one red sock has in my mind.

I so stay with this guy named Bill Kazmaier.

Who's the world's strongest man Champions? I know what he looks like.

So now I have the Tin Man and Kazmaier Bill Kazmaier has fighting around this rain yellow fire hydrant.

Okay.

Now I have mine.

I have four numbers.

Boom.

I can move on.

Alexa and by doing that any you can get to the point very very quickly where you're memorizing a hundred plus a random numbers at a time.

Yes.

It's it's really incredible.

So I'll give you my my very first exercise in the book that I like him up up up on is that it's the same idea this time you picture your childhood house.

And you ever want another child of that was pretty well or a location.

They know quite well.

Are you live there for a long time and they start you off at the sidewalk.

So you're standing on the sidewalk right by your mailbox in so you think you can put an item down right there.

And so that in this case he wants you to memorize like 15 different items on a grocery shopping list in the first thing is pickled garlic it.

So you put a glass of pickled garlic right there when you're walking in right on the corner, you visualize the glass you visualize how it taste in your mouth.

The logo on the outside the type of screw down cap that it has in the more connections.

You can make to how it feels how it tastes the size of it what it looks like the stronger of a you know of reinforcement is in your brain.

And so Dad is one location.

So just like you you pick next one up is like, you know by your garage door or either the front door.

Next one is for you know, inside the house near kitchen or whatever comes next.

Is he pick like these 10 different locations you placed one object down at each location and sure enough like I can go back days later and tell you exactly where the pickled garlic was almost anyone can do this and what I used to do.

I was lazy I didn't want to use so if you use the same location over and over and over and over I found at least that there was a fair amount of interference and I'll get confused because I saw something that I already put in the specific place.

So what I would do if I was sitting In your the equivalent like a bar on Princeton campus hanging out with somebody and they're like weird memories shit like a like a monkey and and so I would actually look around the room that I was sitting in and out of place where we're at with in the direction.

I happen to be facing and I would place the images around the room and what was so wild about that is that it was so unique a signature or so unique a frame that I could see the person to three days later and I'll be like hey, do you still have that 5 on your wallet? But I got the cereal goes backwards and then and people can get to that level of proficiency within a week or two.

It's it's not complicated.

Anyway, this is a great book.

I'm enjoying it so far.

If you're looking to improve your memory, you know, there's a bunch of little tricks that they're starting to run.

About halfway through the book.

It's been a fun read and it's also on Audible to that's how I got to have heard great things about it another book for those of you who want a compliment that I found extremely helpful and I believe the author I I haven't seen the book in probably 20 years, but I think it's Higbie is the last name higbee your memory and how to improve it really sure.

I'm getting that right or partially right cool and that is a known as wet as at a tremendous resource there because in my sophomore year all of the recreational reading I did was related to mnemonic devices and studying this type of Some people call it artificial enhancement of memory.

It's so funny.

I wouldn't even notice when I sat down I got you didn't know I was going to say no idea.

I had no idea that's just a description of us super mind called Mind of a mnemonist like mnemonic mne Emma Mine by AJ Lauria and talks about synesthesia and all this kind of crazy crazy stuff.

Just rain man.

Like that's awesome abilities and Beyond which is I thought was very inspiring but also highlighted that when you have those types of gifts, it's often a very mixed bag.

Yeah, you have a lot of interest in this book walk through a couple profiles of individuals that have had more less perfect memories in the it's very daunting not to be able to forget certain things actually has really bad like you want to be able to forget certain things that were built to forget certain things and it shows Quinn says they're they're not pretty.

Which is why when I look at technology and living in Silicon Valley as I do and the perspective of memory enhancement using technological means and I think there's a lot of Promise in developing some of these Technologies which are well in development at this point.

I mean well in development of any of these are visiting voltage direct current stimulation know I've experimented with that.

I'm having you I have just keep going on and we can certainly do that recommendation for people which is have you guys seen Black Mirror.

No, oh my God.

Why do CPAP humidity in the miniseries the miniseries? That's like the Twilight Zone based on technology Street in Groves.

But there are I really enjoyed it.

There's some very good episodes and I was like, yeah, that's the first I think it's a mine trip, but there's one episode about a not-too-distant future where you can replay memories that are, because you are a reality or Waking reality is being recorded through your eye and you can replay them or protect them for people rewind search for certain things.

I don't think that we're that far away, but it it definitely highlight some of the risks involved with that amazing.

Alright cutie More Les your channel.

So here we go.

What is one illegal substance that you've tried that is changed you for the better.

I got Tim Tim on this one.

So seven your number one.

That would be I would say the odds that was the I had a number of very transformative and formative experiences with psilocybin that were I think the Tipping Point where is certain decisions and reprogramming to do for you.

What what's the thing that I mean not clearly as mentioned just a few minutes ago with the research you want to do something happened something happened in that changed you.

Yeah.

What was what was the change that happened to change? I would say I've always been a worrier.

I've always had a fair degree of anxiety, which is not uncommon among a type personalities and I need to know the attribution.

This is somebody please No, just hit us up on the twitters i t Farris at Kevin arrows but this expression that I heard which ranks are treated me was anxiety is fix being trapped in the future and depressions being trapped in the past.

So if your planner it's your control-freak, what are you doing? You're constantly planning.

What if this what if that contingency a contingency be so and it manifests in different ways, right? Some people get angry some people start losing their temper other people to help physical symptoms some type of whether it's Danny GI discomfort and acid reflux.

Whatever my favorite acid reflux of had it all my experience was is that at sufficient dose and this is something you really need to do a proper supervision, and I'm not just saying that as ass covering should have liability lip service.

There are many cases of people using side.

Watching the wrong circumstances and dying and you can make very bad decisions step out in front of traffic.

You can jump out of a window like there are many different ways.

You can the horribly injured or kill yourself if this is not used universally overdosing from this Simon right know it's from making very little all this caveat.

Let's use a comparison.

I think we've all had the experience of opening up a computer with say you're using chrome doesn't really matter.

You have 30 30 tabs open and you're running out of storage Yakima looking at Kevin's computer in that looks just like Warning startup disk almost full oshit.

What do I do and then drop box is sinking? Why is my computer running so slow I was also on and not necessarily the Mac was something else aside.

Why is my sister so goddamn slow or the antivirus is on at 6.

From me what a high dose or moderate monitor high does psilocybin experience does is it serves as a hard reboot the entire system flushes the cash and allows me to regain a sore thirty thousand foot view sanity in view of larger pictures and my most important priorities and remove all that noise and the Ant the Angela text Liang the anxiety decreasing and some depression, which I've also battled with suppressing effect for me.

The first time I used it last lasted I want to say 3 to 6 months.

It was unbelievable.

It was just unbelievable how persistent was and so I would say that is my answer.

That's fascinating.

That's awesome good answer.

So I'm going to ask you a few questions.

I don't think I got around to asking the first time when you hear the word successful, who's the first person who comes to mind then why say Philip Rosedale? Okay, I am still up and why so he created Second Life way back in the day the virtual world second life and I have interviewed him on my show Foundation back in the day.

I had a podcast called Foundation you can still find it.

So I think it's the foundation.

Bz where I interviewed a bunch of entrepreneurs Several years ago.

And the reason that I like him is a going to a couple fronts one.

I feel that he is a very creative person that doesn't fully accept risk and just goes in head-first and is willing to try really wild and crazy ideas and really doesn't care if they fail and always has done that throughout his entire career and it's been very successful at it and he continues to do that today and I just, you know, I really admire people that aren't afraid of failure and willing to try big old things.

Nothing like Elon Musk would be an easy answer on this front because you trying somebody really cool big bold ideas, but How does a Google Now that I mean the another example of it's very hard to fail completely.

They got to take something from it or you learn lessons at then we can parlay into the next thing that is successful and I have the pleasure of meeting these guys.

I think that I'm not knocking it all they're really brilliant guys.

I clearly if created an amazing organization that continue to do great work.

The issue I have is that the reason I like Philip I picked him over like the founders of Google you're at you're mad about your AdSense account as these ideas.

They're just so crazy like it you have to go back and listen to podcast about like how to manage people and how to manage projects and how to get group thing to come together and create Beautiful things and it just their kind of the out-of-this-world ideas and I am attracted to that.

For some reason.

I like the really crazy thinkers.

Like I just had on Jason Freedom my podcast that I do for the journal podcast that I do and he has created an amazing startup, but he was like we were talking about the culture that he creates his company wanted things that he said is that I want to pay people for getting 8 hours of sleep like and he wants to track that like you come with your Fitbit you off in your account and it shows you slept a full 8 hours and you get paid a bonus cares about how can I take care of the entire life cycle of an individual and ways that I've never heard about before so those are the types of ideas and aren't just you know, how can we create a better browser? How can we create a self-driving car? They're just really I don't know.

You could try to pay people for having like an hour of sex a day that accelerometer That's true.

That's wear a belt while you're boning.

I guess there's there's a I think that end in being a venture capitalist in Silicon Valley for so many years.

Like we see the same pictures over and over and you see modifications of hay on the Uber for this thing on the Twitter for that.

That's just like those big ideas that are new and beautiful and ugly and scary and all those things that you find them.

So rarely in Founders, and I I like those types of Founders.

And so that's that's why you came to mine.

Yandere football-sized tremendous amount of stamina mean he's been in the game for a long long time and he sang is the right word, but he's been very consistent big-time meditator to invented his own form of meditation.

I'm not joking.

What what character is he counts to like it was it is more than 3,000.

It gets like 10,000 a day.

You see does Mantra based at based on Counting and he's just too.

Down to like do you like have a conference call at 6737? It's after midnight now.

Alright, alright if you could drugs.

I can change any law.

What would it be and I can't talk about mind altering substances of you ask me what my favorite breakfast cereal was on podcastone.

So this is it's true.

No, I asked you that are even worse question asked if you could be a breakfast cereal, what would you be? What a fucking terrible question God up a little wobbly Lord, and I actually I just cuz I've gone through this recently.

I guess I've been told that I am a Libertarian.

I don't know if that's true or not.

But I think that only give kind of a larger Picture answer to that.

I think that There are laws and Pratt all laws should be Revisited and reassessed on occasion because there are certain laws that are put in place to in the best cases create the greatest good for the greatest number of people in circumstances that then change so for instance, you know, I'm building a barrel sauna and it's relatively small looks like a gigantic wine barrel affectively based on plans that were given to me by Rick Rubin who got them from Laird Hamilton.

It's an incredible set up a surprisingly inexpensive and to put that on my own property out of you of any neighbors was just Like trying to broker a fucking peace treaty between like North South Korea to do with my neighbors has everything to do with just getting City and town permits and all that, So you have to do that.

It's there are example but I really I'm generally a small government guy.

I really feel like if you look at for instance crises or natural disasters, this is a conversation I had with Sebastian Junger not too long ago who wrote a great book called try to talks about this and earthquakes in the The Blitz when London is being bombed during World War two people develop social structures and rules.

That keep the peace and assign roles to different types of people in and create order amongst themselves.

Now, I'm not an artist.

I'm not saying the government shouldn't exist.

But I do think that we veg too far into a nanny State type of dependency, which is it's it's not a healthy dependency whatsoever.

I think that it's it.

It's created a stifling environment for certain things whether it is this Barrel sauna or hiring really good non US citizens to work your startup, right? And I know a lot of icons you it's ludicrous.

It is completely ludicrous to those are especially based in a country where the blend of cultures and Innovation that we have is directly a consequence of massive immigration outrageous.

So that's that's my rent.

But I could change any lawyer yet.

Nothing super specific this on all hot like the sun allows.

I really need to I need to provide more money to the sauna Lobby.

I think it's what this comes down to a fundraiser for the song.

I get Beyond shut up with a better answer if I thought more about it was great.

I think that it should be easier to for people to in.

This is from sure state-by-state and not just Federal.

I think it should be easier for a loved one to take their loved one off of life support or provide ethical euthanasia in cases where that has been so prearranged and I don't think that the state should have saying that I think that if if if that is something that has been documented and agreed upon beforehand.

I think that that should be an option in more circumstances.

Sites to see people suffer.

Alright, what's my question your question? These are these are pretty pretty sure ones.

What is the what is the book or books of gifted most other people would be miracle for Miracle of mindfulness have you? That's right.

I never read the book great book.

Yeah, it's great.

I mean it was it was the one that really got me into mindfulness and really applying to a kind of everyday life.

There's a story in there where he talks about washing the dishes to wash the dishes instead of thinking about it think it's the the the plum that you're going to eat after the dishes and then the point being like if you're thinking about the plum when you washing the dishes when you're eating the plumber give me thinking about because I can email or whatever it is is I mean, we should be in the moment and focusing on the task at hand putting her full attention on that and really living that moment and this is just a great really short Reed.

You can pick it up on Amazon for like twelve bucks none expensive book and it's it's one of my favorite one.

What is mindfulness what second-place doing the whole social internet thing in the early days? I would say that wisdom of crowds was a big one for me that that meant a lot to me and there's still some some great low Tibbetts and their gosh.

Nothing outside of that makes him Green Eggs and Ham my top two since I give a long-winded answer LOL, but I'm going to give you some air time.

I'll ask another question recent purchase and have to be recent of $100 or less that has positively impacted your life any purchase of $100 or less that had a significant positive effect in your life.

You know, I I hate to plug my my other podcast but episode number to I went out and of the journal I went out and interview this guy that is a master of pens.

Like he just knows more about pins than we do about anything else on Earth and he recommended like three pens that are have the absolute best rollerball pen.

The best fountain pen in these are all like $4 pens.

Okay, some of them are really hard to find someone like you only find in Japan and it's convenient entire stock of pans of the office at my desk with these cheap full three or four.

Albans and they're amazing Cedric all the names or yes.

I can put them in your show notes.

I will get his top three and I'll be there in the show.

All right, we'll put these in the shadows guys four hour work week.

Com podcast.

You can find show notes for this and all the other episodes.

I like to and you knows about me like to geek out on something and go really really really deep and you think you'll like this to rhyme like this to end up having a 30-40 Minute Podcast about notebooks and pens and I'm like, well that was super geek and I don't know if anyone to like it, but I have some awesome notebooks now.

I like to do I like right side ink pens.

I have a bit of a pain fetish myself.

So this is as bread at my only question for you.

All right.

What is 1 body experiment you wish you didn't do experiment that I wish I didn't that I did not mention the double circumcision.

I can't mention the double circumcision.

I'm sorry.

I did that to toaster.

I do regret that.

Sorry to be the one that comes to mind is.

All right.

So I was in Cape Town South Africa doing research related to a number of chapters in the 4-Hour Body.

I was getting muscle biopsies which involves having something the size of a large pain stabbing into the side of your leg cut muscle tissue out.

Not super comfy that one.

I don't regret that got me a lot of really interesting enzymatic information related to endurance and so on are also must have thought my muscle fiber analysis, which is really fascinating Sports Science Institute of South Africa and the doctor Timothy noakes is there brilliant guy incredibly well versed in the in the worlds of ultra endurance and hydration or lack thereof and how the body responds to different states of hydration and forms and implications.

I wanted to do a berry.

I said well known well-established running tests going to be an endurance test, which I'm not known for it to start with and I decided that I could use every Advantage possible and I had read in a number of places that rest Vera draw which most people associate with longevity which is legal cases today to get sort of the therapeutic dose used in clinical something absurd like that recipe also has apparently some incredible implications for endurance and I remember seeing this video.

I can't believe it was super rat there was like normal rat and then Super Rat runni